First, I want to apologize for the lack of posts lately. We have been extremely busy on some other projects and just have not had the time to work on posting our thoughts on what is going on in the basketball world. If you have a chance, check out our Lahaina.com website. It is a travel resource for all things Maui and will be a great site to check out for all you college basketball fans coming over for the Maui invitational.
Fortunately, I was lucky enough to catch the last three quarters of game two of the Boston Celtics vs. the Chicago Bulls. I have to say that the game was filled with plenty of excitement, which is pretty typical for an NBA playoff game. For those of you NBA haters out there, I highly recommend watching the NBA playoffs. This might be one of the more ridiculous comments for me to make, but I believe the NBA playoffs are just as exciting as March Madness. I mean for a basketball purist what is better than 40 games in 40 nights?
Back to the game, it was action packed and back and forth between the two teams. Both teams couldn’t stop one another on defense and there were some great individual feats, such as Ben Gordon dropping 40+ and Ray Allen hitting the go ahead three-pointer–yadda yadda. What I want to talk about is something that has been bugging me for sometime, but we have seen its true colors in these playoffs.
I want all the experts and casual fans to stop telling me how amazing Paul Pierce is. Since last year season and the NBA Finals, I have heard over and over how great Pierce is. How he lead his team to an NBA championship. How he deserves to be mentioned in the MVP voting. Even last night by Doug Collins, how he has the heart of a champion. Yes, Paul Pierce is a good player, but he has some great players along side of him and the true heart of a champion on this team is his injured mate Kevin Garnet.
If the Bulls get one rebound, the Celtics would be down right now 0-2 in this series and staring elimination dead in the face. The same Bulls who are playing without Luol Deng and have a rookie coach in Vinnie Del Negro. Without KG, the Celtics are obviously not very good. The heart and soul, the MVP of Celtics, is in street clothes with a bald head on the bench. Do you think the Celtics give up a 115 points with KG in the lineup?
Last night put the icing on the cake that Pierce is overrated. Down the stretch, in clutch-time, it was Rondo, and more importantly, Ray Allen who won last night’s game. In fact, the plays that were drawn up at the end of the game weren’t even for Pierce. Start giving credit where it is due. Ray Allen deserves a ton of credit. KG deserves a ton of credit. Paul Pierce needs a little less credit.
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“Without KG, the Celtics are obviously not very good.”
And I thought your March Madness comment was bad! Haha! Seriously though, that’s a bit ridiculous. Without KG the Celtics defense is not up to it’s usual standard of course. And no, they wouldn’t give up 115ppg with KG in the lineup. However the fact is that they’ve played horribly averagely for 2 games and won one of them. Meanwhile it’s taken 2 Bulls players to go off for spectacular career nights to get a split. The Celtics haven’t played well, as a Celtics fan, I’m very aware of this, but to say that they’re not very good is overstepping the mark, and ignoring wins over Miami (twice), Atlanta (twice), Cleveland, San Antonio, Denver and Phoenix with KG in street clothes. As a Boston fan, I watch every game online (sadly I live in the UK and only manage to get to 3-5 games per season in person) and Paul Pierce has taken over the end of games too many times to recall. The attention received by him this year on the back of his Finals MVP has, I would agree, resulted in some media outlets and commentators overrating him. I still believe KG is the soul of the team (as probably even Pierce would agree) and Allen deserves credit for his clutch shooting for sure (and get its for his end-of-game heroics). But if the Celtics need a big bucket to stop a run, or 100% need a score on any given possession, Pierce is my choice everytime.
been saying it for YEARS…
Pierced is a good player, who has outbursts of greatness, and has always been one of the top 20 players in the league, but that’s it. He is NOT, by any stretch of the imagination a superstar. Superstars don’t miss the playoffs, let alone finish close to last place – even if their team stinks (See: Lebron James 2003-2007). Take the current C’s roster, take Pierced out, add a healthy KG, they win it all last year. I love the Pierce shut down Lebron last year argument…NO HE DIDN’T. First off, Lebron had 2 bad games and DESTROYED the C’s in the other 5, and second off that was Mr. Posey, James that shut him down.
Pierce is overrated, he is dirty, he is a malcontent during losing stretches, he is a talented player who was lucky enough to be surrounded by talent late in his career, and the wheelchair stunt was ILL.
just sayin’
Pierce also spit at the Cavs bench players a few years back. Classy guy, huh?
Thank you for writing this.
Pierce is a great player, there is no denying that, however I too am tired of the everyone making it out like he is the best player on the celtics. I think people forget how ridiculously good Ray Allen has been his entire career, especially in clutch situations. And KG has more of an inlfluence on the entire game than either one of them.
To me it seems like Pierce is a great player when he has great players around him. He doesnt however seem like the type of player that makes his team better without these other players around him. I would take guys like Brandon Roy, Derron Williams, Chris Paul, etc over him in a heartbeat that make the overall team better but can create (like Pierce) when needed.
And dont get me started about literally being carried off the court in agony and then returning to the same game. It’s just sad that the media buys into that stuff so much.
This seems like an overreaction. Pierce has not had a good two games, so now he must be overrated. If you look at last year’s playoffs, it was pretty clear of the Big Three, Pierce is by far the most consistent.
Clearly, though, Pierce is not playing well right now. He seems sort of tired, but I really don’t know why because he was playing well at the end of the season.
just get out. revisionist history after watching two games. how about those games in last year’s playoffs where KG disappeared for whole halves?
garnett is amazing, especially on the defensive end, and you are right to say that the bulls don’t score 115 points per with him out there. but you know what? pierce isn’t charged with being that help defender. and KG couldn’t have done anything about gordon the other night. dude was out of his mind with a hand in his face.
and oh, how has salmons looked this series? and who is defending him again?
longtime celtics fans have watched the truth bring the celtics back in games they have no business winning for too long to buy this garbage. the beauty of the big three (and now, legitimately, four) is that each of them can be the best player on the floor on any given night. sadly, one of them just isn’t on the floor. and without any one of them last year the celtics would have fallen in the first round, or definitely in the second.
the truth is just that, your snap judgments notwithstanding. pierce has had two sub-par games. that doesn’t happen too often. i’d be awfully worried if i were the bulls.
Amen to the previous two posts.
It’d have saved you and everyone a lot of time if you’d just written, “I’m angry for no reason and I hate Paul Pierce.”
I’ve heard a rumor (I think via the Basketball Jones) that Pierce is somehow injured (as is Salmons LuLew, so don’t give Pierce too much credit). That’s a bit of an excuse, but I do think that Pierce has been a little overrated due to the favorable match-ups he gets due to Ray Allen and Garnett. Think about the Celtics when they were healthy — they were very difficult to do switches on without leaving someone good open, and teams are often more worried about Ray Allen coming off a screen for a three. Consequently, Pierce gets a lot of one-on-one coverage. He’s a very good player, and probably was underappreciated during those years in the wilderness, but being surrounded by such good teammates has helped him tremendously.
It’s funny how everyone only recognizes how good Pierce is now that he has the supporting cast around him. The Truth is that “The Truth” has been putting up pretty impressive numbers his entire career. For example, Pierce is 3rd all-time in points scored, second all-time in PPG in the playoffs and the regular season(right behind Larry Bird for both), and number two in free throws behind Havlicek in 2/3rds the games. Those are pretty impressive numbers given the history of that franchise.
Also, Pierce has always had a real knack for elevating his game from very good to great during clutch moments (even way back in 2002 with Antoine “Fat Chucker” Walker as his partner when they made the ECF), and has been a superior defensive player over the past two seasons.
With regards to the person who said that Posey was the one who shut down LeBron…you obviously weren’t paying attention. Posey could not keep LeBron out of the lane anytime he guarded him, and needed a double team to help him out. Pierce was the only one who could play him one on one and keep him out of the lane. He also was the only person that could guard Kobe and turned him into a jump shooter in the Finals, while also getting to the rim at will against anyone the Lakers put on him. You need to watch the playoff tapes again from last year, because Pierce was the best two way player in the entire postseason.
Ray Allen and Garnett are both awesome regular season players, but the knock on them is that they choke in the playoffs and they certainly did struggle a lot through the first few series while Pierce put the team on his back and carried them to a championship. Pierce rose to the occasion, and carried everyone else with him. I don’t know how you could watch the Celtics through the post season last year and not see that. Without Pierce, the Celtics definitely would NOT have won last year period.
Without question one of the dumbest articles ever written. Looks like someone has been buying into the Anti-Boston trio of networks aka ESPN, ABC, and TNT. Fact is, if Paul Pierce got anywhere near the same love from the officials as REAL OVERRATED players like Lebron, Kobe, and Wade then Paul Pierce would be talked about as the “heir apparent” instead of them. Take the refs away from Lebrick, Kobaby Cryant, and Wade and their games take a HUGE step back. Pierce has NEVER played with the refs help and has consistently been a superstar.
Because he’s not superstar! He has the two best supporting cast, that is if you want to call Garnett supporting cast..Look he couldnt get them over the hump in a weak EC…Garnett and Allen arrived and they win a RING..two years ago i might add. Lets also put a stop to this nonsense about pierce shutting people down..Boston plays great team defense… thats it!
with posts like this, dont apologize for not posting lately. apologize for talking out of your ass.
If you knew anything about the Celtics, or the NBA, you’d know that Pierce is one of the most unheralded players in the league. No player can win without a supporting cast. Kobe needed Shaq. Michael needed Pippin and Rodman. Duncan needs Parker. I can go on forever. Don’t diminish what Pierce can do because he had other guys help out as well.
Pierce never looks for credit. He goes out there and plays his game. He is one of the most all-around players in the league. Nobody says hes better than LeBron or Kobe or Wade. Pierce is however, just as clutch as those players when it counts.
far from overrated… just a little sluggish thus far. As everyone knows he was the best player on the court against the lakers in the finals. honestly he looks tired. But he surely isn’t over rated to be overrated he would have to be in conversations with the likes of jordan, magic, bird and he isn’t. he must be doing something right he’s gonna be at the top of most Celtic offensive category. also its only been 2 games.He’ll show up you’ll see……
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Mike Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:43 pm
“Without question one of the dumbest articles ever written.”
You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but when you say idiotic things like this: “REAL OVERRATED players like Lebron, Kobe, and Wade then Paul Pierce would be talked about as the “heir apparent” instead of them.”
To paraphrase Bill Walton – that is the stupidest thing ever said in the history of western civilization. Do you even watch basketball?! Wow.
The truth is (no pun intended) that the reality is somewhere between your ridiculous comment, and the blog posting. Pierce is a superb player who was Boston’s best in the post-season last year. Thoroughly deserved Finals MVP. He was magnificent. But there is no way he is comparable to the three players you deem overrated. He had two bonafide superstars on his team last year, LeBron and Wade did not, Kobe had one.
It would be hard to overrate Paul Pierce. The guy is definitely one of the league’s top 5 small forwards, probably #2 behind LeBron James. He already has a spot waiting for him in the Hall of Fame. However, some writers seem to have found a way to do it. #5 on an MVP ballot ahead of Chris Paul or Dwight Howard? Let’s not be ridiculous.
I think a similar story happens with a lot of players. Underrated and maligned when they’re on a bad team, and overrated once they end up on a good team. The year before Pierce won his Finals MVP, he got left off the all-star team (despite the fact that the Celtics did OK with him on the court and literally couldn’t win without him). Also, look at KG in Minnesota. When his team did well he won MVP, but once they stopped winning (because Spree and Cassell stopped producing) it was like he dropped off the face of the earth, despite the fact that he continued to put up MVP numbers. He came to Boston and suddenly he was an MVP candidate again.
glaishman. The only year the celtics missed the playoffs was when Pierce was out for more than 1/2 the season.
Completely agree Robin….
I agree with the several posts on the bottom that Paul Pierce is not at all overrated. And as someone who has watched just about every game of Paul Pierce’s NBA career, I would say my thoughts have a lot more validity than the thoughts of Jaime, who “was lucky enough to catch the last three quarters of game two” of this first round series. This article is clearly a childish overreaction to a player’s performace in 1 game (well, 3/4 of a game). Paul has looked both sluggish and tired in the first 2 games of this series against the Bulls, but that does not mean he does not have the heart of a champion. Also, since when does having great teammates automatically make someone overrated (with a hat tip to those posters who have already pointed this out)? One of the many idiotic points in the article is the point that the real heart and soul of the Cs and MVP is on the bench. If you followed the Celtics on a daily basis, you would know that the consensus is that this year they don’t really have an MVP. Pierce, KG, Allen, and Rondo are all considered equally important. Though why should Pierce be criticized for KG having a champion’s heart? Is there not room for multiple players to be champions? Anyway, do remember that Paul Pierce is the captain of the Celtics, and many think that he is the true leader of the team.
One more argument against this article is that in basketball circles (see the Bill Simmons article about how a group of NBA scouts answered some poll questions), Pierce was considered not only the Celtics’ MVP this year, but one of the league’s most valuable (and now’s a good time for me to clarify that Wade, Kobe, and LBJ are obviously all on a different level than Pierce, but that doesn’t mean Pierce isn’t a great player). In addition to being placed on the All-NBA 1st team by the scouts Simmons interviewed, Pierce has been tabbed in basketball circles as the Celtics’ best defensive player this season, even better than KG. Pierce was THE ONLY man who could stay in front of LBJ in last year’s playoffs, and he has kept the great defense up this year.
Finally, the most outrageous part of the article: using the fact that the crunch time plays weren’t designed for Pierce in game 2 as evidence that Pierce is overrated. Are you serious? This is one game your talking about. One game! Ray Allen shot 1-12 in game 1. Is he a horrible shooter because of that? Rondo and Allen had it going, and they stepped it up last night. So what? Remember game 7 against Cleveland last year, when Pierce outdueled Lebron in one of the greatest head-to-head scoring performances in playoff history? That’s just one of the many reglular season and playoff games in which the Celtics have gone to a Pierce iso over and over again in the 4th quarter, and Pierce has delivered. He may not be Lebron or Kobe or Wade, but he is as clutch as any of them. And I also suggest that you take a look at the Celtics’ all-time scoring list. You’ll see that Pierce is undeniably one of the best scorers in Celtics history, which is saying something, because the Celtics and their 17 banners have more than a little bit of history.
Aren’t boston fans great? I mean really guys, you couldn’t be more one eyed if you tried could you? statements like “Pierce has NEVER played with the refs help” for example, show that you’re not really of sound mind. Pierce is currently 27th on the list of all time free throw attempts (5th for active players, he led the league in attempts in 2002) which would lead one to believe that he has a little help from the refs.
Personally, I think Pierce is a very talented player, but not one that can carry a team for sustained periods by himself without developing serious attitude problems. If you put Pierce on LeBron’s team last year, you would be hard pressed to make a case other than lottery.
Having said that, when the moment was there to be grabbed last year, he certainly grabbed it. But those saying that he did anything unusual defensively during that run ignore the idea that the celtics were playing otherworldly team defense at the time.
Also, as a few have said, the histrionics regarding the knee in the finals belonged in the soccer world cup, and should be a permanent stain on his record.
P-Double is definitely not in the D-Wade, Kobe, and LeBron class.
I think he is a great player. Hall of Fame is possible too.
He isn’t better than Chauncey Billups. I would give an NBA MVP vote to Billups before I give it to Paul Pierce. I would also vote Billups into the Hall of Fame before I put Pierce in there too. Now Billups isn’t even close to LeBron, D-Wade, and Kobe. He isn’t in that second tier of superstar players either. So where does that put P-Double?
By the way, I just heard C-Web say Derrick Rose reminds him of Rod Strickland! Don’t get me wrong but I think Rod Strickland was a good player, but Derrick Rose plays nothing like him. Someone grab that guy.
Man, are you serious? Chauncey Billups over Pierce? Please stop it.
Last week Bill Simmons listed Pierce as one of the top 5 players in the league. Simmons, being perhaps the most biased person in the world with regard to anything related to the Celtics or Red Sox, this is to be expected, but it is the perfect example of why Pierce is overrated. He’s top 20, not top 5.
I guess the “THE TRUTH” hurts!! hahahahaha
Above poster I’d also like to point out that NBA scouts voted Pierce as first team all NBA…so it’s not just the sports guy who thinks paul is a top 5 player.
Paul pierce being overrated is some straight up garbage over-the-top reaction to two games where he averaged 20ppg and 7.5rpg… you’re talking about the 3rd all time leading celtic scorer, the reigning finals mvp, and the captain of a 62 win team that suffered numerous critical injuries throughout the year.
On top top of that, pierce could care less about his numbers, he is about winning.
“While Paul Pierce expressed concern about Leon Powe after his ACL tear on Monday, he did not express any concern about his own offensive uneveness in the series so far.
“It’s not really bothering me, guys,” he said. “It’s about the team. I don’t go into the game thinking I need more space (to shoot). Other guys are playing well. Other guys are stepping up for us. That’s what’s big for us right now.”
so you keep thinking pierce is overrated, I’ll keep on thinking he is one of the greatest celtics to ever lace them up, and when it mattered most last year outplayed lebron james and kobe bryant.
Paul pierce overated, you got to be kidding. Outside of Kobe and maybe, no current player, LBJ included has made more clutch or buzzer beating shots than Paul Pierce. Who was the difference maker in the finals last year? Kg is the soul of the team, but how many rings did he win before coming to Boston, none. Paul along with Antoine Walker took a mediocre C’s team in 2002 to the Eastern Conference Finals. Out of the three, Paul is the only one who can create a variety of shots for himself consistently. Now he has not always been the model citizen, but if you feel he is overrated, why does LBJ always say that his best rival in the NBA is PP, cause they guard each other and provides him with his most difficult cover. Who one game 7 against Cleveland last year with 41 points. Please when you write foolish posts like this, at least give readers the decency of knowing what you are talking about.
First of all, let me say that I have been a Paul Pierce fan for a long time. I remember watching with disbelief when he fell to the tenth pick in the draft. He’s a fine player, who has had a very good career. However, I think some of these Celtic fans are over reacting to what Jaime was saying.
Jaime wasn’t dissing Pierce, he was complimenting Garnett. He was saying that when people put him in the same class as Kobe, Labron, Wade and also in the same class as Bird, then he felt Pierce was being over-rated. Being rated as very good is not a put down. I think he just feels using the word great is a bit too much. If Pierce is great, how are those other three rated?
Great, great. And then how are Bird, Magic, Jordan rated?Great, great, great.
One over zealous Celtic fan said that the only time the Celtics have missed the playoffs in the Pierce era was when he was injured. The truth is the Celtics made the playoffs in 4 of Pierce’s first 8 years. In his first 8 years, the Celtics never won more than 49 games. Their over all record was 321-385, winning percentage of 45%.
Then Garnett, along with Allen, get traded to the Celtics and they win 66 games and the Championship. Last year they are lauded as the best defensive team in the league. Garnett gets hurt and they are struggling in the first round, giving up 115 points a game. Enough said.
I’d say that Pierce has been a top 15 player over his entire career, but he’s top 3 in raising his performance to the highest levels when it counts the most. He’s taken some really pathetic Celtics teams to the playoffs for a lot of years and still put up some big numbers, but you really have to measure his worth against the best players in the league from last year’s playoff run.
He took on arguably the two best players in the league last year, and throughly outplayed both of them when playing heads up. When Posey couldn’t guard LeBron, Pierce ASKED to play him according to Doc Rivers, and single handedly kept him out of the lane without having to commit a double team. He then went on to do the same thing to Kobe Bryant, who’s the most dynamic scorer of the past decade. Pierce made Kobe a one-dimensional jump shooter when it counted the most, and he also torched Kobe when he played Pierce on defense.
Like I said before, Garnett and Allen are tremendous players, but both of them were known for being playoff chokers prior to last year, and were choking in the early rounds of the playoffs last year. If it wasn’t for Pierce, they would’ve been knocked out early on. That isn’t to say that they aren’t great players, but neither of those guys played anywhere near as well in the playoffs than they did throughout the regular season except for Pierce.
I also have to call out the person who mentioned that Billups is better than Pierce…are you crazy??? Billups was unwanted by something like five teams and wasn’t really any good until he got to Detroit, where he had a great system. Billups is probably a top 40 NBA player at best in this league. Billups is a Hall of Good player, not anywhere close to a Hall of Fame player, please be realistic. Pierce has been a top 8 scorer in the NBA for almost his entire career, even on some of the worst NBA teams ever, with the worst team systems (Pitino, O’Brien) ever. I mean, the third best player on some of these teams was Walter McCarty for God’s sake.
What are you talking about? Did anyone watch the finals last year. Paul Pierce is the best player on the Celtics. I’m sorry. I love KG and Ray Allen, I thought that Paul would disappear with these guys on the team, but he hasn’t he has stepped up and emerged as the leader of the team. KG fires up the team, but Pierce brings it all the time. He is a reliable player that plays through injuries.
People call him an average player, because he doesn’t score 40 points a night like Lebron, Wade and Kobe, but he doesn’t have to. When he was the only viable scoring option on the team he faced double and triples teams and he still managed to be one of the NBA’s elite players. Its obvious that some of you just started watching this guy play basketball. No he isn’t flashy, but he gets the job done. The Celtics do not win a championship ring without Paul Pierce!
Don’t forget that they struggled last year in the first round too. If I were Chicago I would be very afraid because, they haven’t had to weather a Pierce storm yet. Its coming. He is overdue!
and another thing…Lebron has not won a title yet, so he isn’t in the company of Wade, Kobe or Pierce for that matter.
Pierce is closer to being in the discussion with Carmelo Anthony, Josh Smith, and Andre Igoudala than he is with the likes of Lebron, Kobe, and D-Wade and it’s not even close. A lot of people need to take off their leprechaun colored glasses.
What Ai (sixers) and josh smith shouldnt even be in this discussion. you probably just need glasses. im mean let them do it for more then 1 or 2 season. smith cant even shoot. not even there go to guy. thats just crazy.
Pierce overrated ? LOL. Of all the stupid suggestions … Pierce is better shooter and rebounder than Wade, tougher defender and personality than Bryant, more resourceful scorer than James. He is a versatile player that gets selfless when the team is strong enough, yet he can get hot in offence ala Vinnie Johnson.
And you mention Anthony, Iguadala, and Smith in the same sentence ? Come on. You aren’t a regular NBA viewer are you ?
Dwayne,
So you are saying that LeBron isn’t as good as Paul Pierce just because he doesn’t have a ring? I guess you think Jack Haley is better than Charles Barkley too.
Billups is decent at best,
I was just saying that if you looked at this year, Billups has done more for his team than Pierce. Plus don’t start the Billups got into a good system and then started winning argument. Right now Billups is running that Denver team and making them a scary team in the West. It’s not just Detroit…plus…It’s not like Paul Pierce was holding up trophies before KG and Ray got into town. Is Paul Pierce wearing a ring is only one of those two got there? I mean what superstar needs two other superstars to win a championship? It’s usually a duet of superstars not a trio. I was just trying to make the comment that Pierce and Billups are more on the same level then him being on the Kobe, Bron, and D-wade level.
Paul Pierce Can Handle and out play any of the top 5 on any given day and probaly has so can at least say he is top. He gets to the rim very well, deadly midrange and shoots the three wayyyyyyyyyyy better than wade and lebron. He can cover kobe wade and even lebron so why cant he be considered a superstar
Shuttlesworth,
I’ll address your points as a list:
1. I’d argue that it’s more addition by subtraction is the real reason that the Nuggets got so much better. Iverson leaving that team, and getting a real point guard is the biggest difference as to why the Nuggets are playing the way they are now because that was their biggest need. Clear evidence of this is how badly Detroit has fallen since aquiring Iverson, and how they were in such a hurry to deactivate him at the end of the year. When Garnett went down with 28 games left in the season, Pierce raised his scoring percentage by three or four points per game, and the team won 20 out of 28 for a 71% winning percentage. Denver would probably have the same record if they got Rafer Alston instead of Billups.
2. Billups had played for Boston, Toronto, Denver (1st time), and Minnesota before ending up in Detroit and he was horrible-nothing special in every stop. His numbers in Detroit were solid, but nothing special and basically match his career numbers of 15ppg, 5.6 apg, 2.9 rpg, 1.0 spg, 0.2 bpg and .416 fg%. Basically, Billups is an above average score-first NBA PG, and steps up his game in the playoffs on some very good teams. Pierce is at or near the top in most of the offensive categories for one of the most storied and historically talent laden franchises in sports, but played on possibly the worst teams in Celtics history up until two years ago, which means he was facing double and triple teams on every possession. His career averages are 22.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.7 bpg, .443 fg%, and also elevates his game in the biggest games ever.
Further proof of Pierce being one of the most clutch players in the NBA, and way more clutch than Billups by a huge margin can be found here: http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm. Pierce is tenth in a data sample of five full regular and playoff seasons, while Billups is 54th. Need I say more?
3. Billups wasn’t even a good player until he got onto a team with two superstars in Rip Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace. So, aren’t you arguing against your own guy? Also, it’s usually a trio of star or fringe star players that win a title. Trios like the winningest team of the last decade (Duncan, Parker, Ginobili), or great teams like those in the 80′s (Magic, Kareem, Worthy), (Bird, McHale, Parish), etc. Even Jordan had a trio for most of his championships consisting of himself, Pippen, and a host of other guys like Rodman or Kukoc, etc.
4. Just looking at their career stats alone, it’s not even a comparison between Billups and Pierce man. You have to stop being a Pierce hater and just look at it objectively. Pierce will be in the hall of fame some day, and his number will be retired for sure. Do you think the same will be said of Billups?
just came back to say i told you so.
OK Boston fans this is getting ridiculous.
1) Pierce is NOT better than Lebron or Kobe if you think that you lose all credibility.
2) If you think Pierce is a better defensive player than Garnett you are an idiot.
3) Pierce didnt guard Kobe. Allen did. Both Allen and Garnett had arguably better numbers than Pierce in the finals. And Pierce didnt stop Lebron, what series were you watching?
4) Pierce pulled a move that would make soccer players cringe by getting literally carried of the court, and returning to the same game. That should never happen. You hurt one leg, hobble off.
5) Finally how can you possibly say Allen was known for choking in the playoffs. Did you ever watch him before he got to Boston? He had amazing clutch perfomances, taking a crappy sonics team almost to the western conference finals and other amazing performances with Milwaukee.
Michael,
1. Nobody said that Pierce was better than Kobe, Lebron, or even Wade for that matter. Most of the people that are pro-Pierce are saying that he’s in the top echelon of players. Realistically, he is a notch below those guys because he has below average athleticism for an NBA star while those other guys have all-world athleticism. That being said, Pierce’s production is right there with the elite players in the league in spite of his lack of athleticism. He gets it done with skill, effort, and probably the best footwork in the league.
2. Nobody said that Pierce was a better defensive player than Garnett because that’s just retarded to even consider. They are saying that he was the best at playing Kobe and LeBron one on one than anyone else in the playoffs since Bruce Bowen became a corpse.
3. Pierce did guard Kobe, so did Allen, and so did Posey. In fact, Allen guarded Kobe most of the time, but Pierce did by far the best job of the three. The last three games in particular, Pierce was guarding Kobe in crunch time for all of those games, and did an amazing job in keeping him from the rim.
Nobody said that Pierce stopped Lebron, they are saying that Pierce was the only player that could keep him out of the lane with any consistency. I’d have to agree from watching that series. Lebron’s only weakness is his outside shooting, and Pierce was the only guy that could keep him out of the lane that year, and this year in the regular season.
4. Pierce hurt his knee, and got carried off of the court. So its his fault that his teammates decided to carry him off the court??? Did he pull them aside and say “I’m going to pretend that I’m hurt, and you guys go find a wheelchair that just happens to be in the back to carry me off”?? If you think that this is the case, then you are beyond stupid. Didn’t Dwayne Wade get carried off the court a few years ago, only to return? Doesn’t Lebron James act like he gets shot in the face everytime someone breathes on him? Doesn’t Andy Varajao flop if he hears a loud noise or if someone grazes his arm? Wheres the outrage in all of that? All of those other guys (except Wade) do that crap every game, yet nobody says anything about it, so why point the spotlight on Pierce? Of what benefit would Pierce have gained by pretending his knee was hurt? I hear this all the time from retarded Laker fans because I live in the area, yet they still can’t tell me what benefit Pierce or the Celtics gained by having everyone think Pierce was out for the series, and also miss the next five plays? It’s mind boggling how stupid people are who actually bring this up as if it matters at all. Artest went into the stand and punched fans in the face, yet nobody talks about that. Kobe cheated on his wife and possibly raped someone, and he gets a free pass, but Pierce must have faked an injury so he’s the worst person in the world…GET A REALITY CHECK PLEASE!
5.How can you say that Ray Allen was known as a winner in the playoffs prior to coming to Boston? He’s never even gotten to a conference championship game prior to coming to Boston while Pierce at least made it once with Antoine Walker, Walter McCarty and a bag of donuts for a team. What amazing performances did Allen have with the Bucks? Pierce almost single-handedly orchestrated the biggest comeback in playoff history at the time (2001) to beat New Jersey in the playoffs with one of the crappiest Celtics teams in history. I don’t think there has been one memorable highlight of Ray Allen’s time in Milwaukee ever, because they didn’t win anything. Also, that Sonics team that almost made it to the WCF was a pretty damn good team that year finishing with 52 wins. Pierce’s teams never crossed 50 wins ever until two years ago, and never even got close except for maybe twice in a ten year span.
Thanks for the revisionist history lesson.
Using statistical modeling, Dave Berri has analyzed Kobe vs. Pierce vs. Jordan and found that Pierce produces more than Kobe in the regular season by a small amount and is much better than Kobe in the playoffs. Of course, neither are as good as his Airness, or Garnett for that matter. At the very least, this definitely proves that Pierce belongs in the same level as Kobe and Lebron:
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/kobe-myths/
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/
The numbers don’t lie.
Pierce > Kobe statistically
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/kobe-myths/
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/kobe-myths-–-playoff-edition/
‘Nuff said
You need a new blog entry as “Paul Pierce, Overrated” right at top is getting more ridiculous every day. Anyway, you should call him Paul “The Dagger” Pierce from now on.
The idea that Pierce is a top 5 player in the league is laughable. He’s been the third best player on his own team in this series with Chicago, add Gordon and Rose into the mix and he’s barely top 5 in this series, let alone the league.
Rajon Rondo is the leading scorer in the playoffs for Boston and he is averaging a triple-double…there is no doubt that the best player who is playing the best on Boston right now is obviously Rondo. Other than Qtr 4 of game 5 P-double has looked sluggish and old…do you really get your shot blocked my Salmons if you are Kobe, D-Wade, Lebron if it is for the game? Don’t think so. Maybe he needs to ride around in that magical wheel chair and maybe he will play better.
Must be nice that you have to only show up in game five of your first playoff series to be acclaimed by some people as one of the best in the game.
I still say P-Double is a great player, just not one of the top five. Can he score? Sure. Can he hit clutch shots? Sure. Is the liked by his fans? Like Jesus they follow him. But he isn’t on that top level. Sorry.
The only difference between Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and Pierce is athleticism. Just because those guys can jump higher and run faster doesn’t necessarily make them that much better than Pierce. If Paul had a 50 inch vertical, then you guys would be on his jock big time. Just because comeone can dunk well doesn’t make you that much better than someone who doesn’t if both players hit clutch shots and lead their teams in scoring in the playoffs.
You guys obviously haven’t watched Pierce’s career beyond last year, so I don’t think you realize how good he’s been over his career. And the fact that he’s still hitting the clutch shots now when his team is shorthanded, and he’s clearly gassed from being over-played because their bench sucks, it makes his performances that much better. But guys like J Shuttlesworth think that it makes Pierce look worse…talk about backwards. The guy is clearly running on fumes right now, yet he still played 51 minutes in that last game and was the game high scorer, and was unbelievably clutch in the end, yet you guys say he sucks…hilarious.
Pierce is a freaking warrior and any of you morons would love to have him on your team. Look at Chris Paul, he gave up in that last game against Denver and he’s healthy. Not Pierce. Give me a break, you Pierce haters are ridiculous.
If Paul Pierce had a 50 inch vert he would be pretty good…way better than he is now. I agree that I would think he would be better than he is now.
Kobe, Lebron, or D Wade on the Celtics instead of Paul Pierce and this series is over. You can agree with that right?
I agree, Paul Pierce is a warrior. Saying that he is not as good as Kobe, D Wade, and Lebron is not a bad thing. He is a great player. One of the best in the league but those previous three are just in another class and P-Double is not there. That’s not a bad thing…not everyone is on that level.
Come playoffs I’d pick Pierce above any of these 3 on my Celtics team. This is not the All Star dunk contest. Put Bryant on this Celtics team and Rondo and Perkins magically transform to Farmar and Turiaf. Put Wade on the locker room and the Celtics become Milwaukee Bucks. Put James on the final seconds and he bricks the 3 over 2 defenders instead of finding open Allen. Pierce has had a marvelous and steady carrer and a well respected game. He might not be the best but his right there in the elite group – calling him overrated or comparing him with Josh Smith is just lame.
G,
what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this blog is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Athleticism doesn’t make you a great player, it’s consistent excellence that does. If athleticism was as important as you say Shuttlesworth, then the Harlem Globetrotters or the And1 traveling teams would be playing in the NBA and destroying everyone. If two guys average about the same points, assists, rebounds, steals, but the non-athletic guy hits the clutch shot at the end of the game over ten seasons while the other one doesn’t but can jump really high and is flashy, which would you rather have? Would you rather have the steak, or the sizzle? A point is still a point no matter how you score it, so I think you’re confusing how a good a guy looks when he plays with how much a guy produces. And right now, Pierce is producing as much as anyone while he’s clearly got some issues working against him. Isn’t that the measure of a true champion? To be able to perform when everything is working against you? Just stop hating on Pierce because he isn’t flashy…neither was Larry Bird, but I bet every team in the league would want him on their team during the 1980′s. Pierce’s numbers are right there with Larry Birds on the all-time lists, and he has a really good chance of surpassing Bird’s numbers in a lot of categories. I’m not saying he’s better than Bird, but he’s in the same category of all-time great Celtics for sure, just like he’s in the same category of best players in the league today.
I think the point about athleticism is that when double teamed, pierce is unable to create a shot. as you are all probably watching right now. Pierce has showed he is great at closing out games, but without his support he wouldn’t even be there.
Mark,
Over the past two months Pierce has been either slowed by injury, or complete gassed due to a lack of team depth…and you’re going to override the last ten years of his career where he was one of the best one on one players in the league and was often the only player on his team who could create his own shot??? Talk about picking nits. You obviously haven’t watched a Celtics game before 3 months ago. Did he look like he couldn’t create his own shot in the Finals last year?
nah, not picking nits. Just making the point that yr lebron’s etc are well and truly in a class above.
and I’ve seen more than a few celtics games in and beyond the last 10 years.
He did well in the finals last year I know and admit, but at other times he has come off as a petulant sulking fool (see olympics)
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