Round 2: Ejections, Fouls, and Hard Fouls
Well, things are getting a little chippy already in the Orlando-Boston series, and the LA-Houston series, and they are only two games into them. Usually it takes a little more time for players to get sick of each other and have tempers flare. I think the fact that both of the favorites, Boston and LA, got spanked in their first games at home, put an extra edge to the second game. If Pat Riley is right, that a playoff series doesn’t really start until a home team loses, then these series got started real quickly.
LA started off quickly in last night’s game, with Kobe Bryant basically putting the team on his back and giving the impression that he was not going to let his team lose. Have to admire that. That’s what great players are supposed to do. I just wish he wouldn’t walk around like a proud peacock after making a shot. What’s that about? I guess he thinks it is an intimidation factor. Ultimately, I think his chirping and the puffing of his chest did lead to things getting a little more intense. Whatever happened to “act like you have done it before”?
Anyway, Houston fought back after being down in double figures early with hard play, outscrapping the Lakers in the second quarter despite Yao being on the bench with foul trouble. Terrific effort from Carl Landry, as Houston just out hustled and out fought the Lakers to get back into it. You have to admire Houstons competitiveness. There’s no quit in those guys.
Another quick start for Bryant and the Lakers at the start of the second half, to get back up by double figures. Late in the third quarter, Scola fouled Odom on a drive to the basket. By no means was it even a hard foul. Just a basketball foul. Odom seemed to react, verbally, and then Walton and Vujacic got involved, running their mouths with Scola. Technicals given to Odom, Walton, and Scola, smartly the refs trying to get control. The next play down as Scola came up to set a screen on Derek Fisher, Fisher delivered a vicious elbow and shoulder into Scola, knocking Scola off his feet and to the floor. No Hollywood acting in this one. Fisher assessed a flagrant 2 foul and was ejected, and probably will be suspended for the next game, rightfully so.
I have always been a Derek Fisher fan. Not the most naturally gifted player, he has made himself into a fine NBA player. Hardnosed and very competitive, the kind of guy you want to play with as a player, and coach if you are a coach. He’s all about winning, and he has so often delivered the big plays in the clutch. A tough guy, but not a “cheap shot” guy. Why, then, this cheap shot? It was so out of his normal character.
My take on it is this. Houston is definitely the more physical team, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. They are physical, but not dirty. I believe their physical play was bothering the Lakers, and I think Fisher felt a message had to be sent back from the Lakers. Fisher knows that none of the Lakers’ big people are going to get tough, physically. Maybe tough verbally, but not physically. So he took it upon himself to deliver a message. Fisher had not been involved in the Odom-Scola little spat. There was nothing personal involved, but I think he felt a message needed to be sent, on behalf of the team. No big guys would do it. He would and did.
In the fourth quarter, Bryant hit Artest with an elbow to the neck while the two of them were jostling for position under the basket for a rebound. Artest, who is stronger than Bryant, was using his superior strength to push Kobe under the basket, and Kobe threw the elbow. There’s nothing like a thrown elbow to piss a player off, especially to the head and neck areas. Artest, rather than flat out punching him, like he probably would have done a few years ago, paraded around to get the refs’ attention to the fact that Kobe had thrown an elbow. Artest ended up getting thrown out when he got into Bryant’s face, probably telling Bryant, no more. Now, like Fisher, I have been a big fan of Artest for a long time. I wanted to trade for him when I was coaching the Pistons during his rookie year. I love his toughness and competitiveness. I know he’s done some crazy stuff, but I still like him. I’m proud of him for how he restrained himself last night. Like Charles Barkley said after the game, “he’d take Artest in his foxhole”. So would I.
The NBA’s policy of no fighting has been a good thing. Basketball is a game of finesse and beauty. Physical intimidation and fighting should not be in the game. But there is also a downside to it. Knowing there is no retaliation, some players gain a little bravado that they may not have had otherwise. Can you picture a Odom, or a Walton going up to Scola on the playground and giving him lip? Do you really think Kobe Bryant would throw an elbow at Ron Artest on the playground in Queens? Like they say, “not in a ******* NY minute”. In the “old days” guys thought twice about giving a cheap shot because they knew it would be coming back at them in spades, kind of like how Fisher retaliated. Even the toughest guys got tired of getting knocked down.
Image Source: Charlotte Observer
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May 7th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Kobe wouldn’t even show up to the game at Queens against Artest let alone throw an elbow at him.
According to Truehoop, Artest was once in a game back in NY where a friend/teammate was stabbed and killed by the leg from a scorer’s table. http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-40-34/Not-Making-Up-the-Stabbing-Story–Ron-Artest.html
Artest is tough as nails and sure these guys wouldn’t be throwing elbows at him on the playground.
May 7th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
Have you actually looked at the video of the play where Artest says Kobe elbowed him n the throat? Kobe’s elbow lands no where near the throat. Try doing a little research and don’t just take someone’s word.
May 8th, 2009 at 5:35 am
Woah…Take it easy.
First it’s the Boston fans (see the Paul Pierce post)…now it’s the Lakers fans.
Reading comprehension wasn’t your best SAT section…
Above the neck, near the throat, in the chest, in the balls, it is all the same…it’s a cheap shot. There is no other reason to throw an elbow other than to piss someone off and get some “get back” because you are obviously frustrated (It’s more about intent than the precision, buddy. “Dude, I didn’t shoot you in the neck or the head. I just shot you in the chest, right about the “R” on your shirt, come on no harm no foul. DUH!!!”)…and Kobe would never throw a crossed look out the corner of his eye, forget an elbow, at Ron Artest unless he was definitely under the protection of law enforcement and security…except when he is fighting over a blonde bird in Colorado…in that case, anything goes.
Ouch…was that too much?
May 8th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Kobe elbowing Artest was what he was suppose to do happens all the time.You can tell Kobe is in great shape and he has been taking Martial Arts.He knows Artest better than you think.You can tell how he reacted when Artest came over he was in total control.Artest has to be smarter than that he created a scene.Let Kobe peacock its entertaing as long as he backs it up.Its funny how personal people get about Kobe his background makes him different lets enjoy the ride,its just basketball.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
The funniest thing about this story is the idea that Odom would be scared of giving lip to Scola on the playground. Uh, really?
Odom is just as bad-ass as Artest. If you know anything about his upbringing or the tragedies in his life, you’d know a showdown with an Argentinian on a playground wouldn’t be too intimidating.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
“Can you picture a Odom…going up to Scola on the playground and giving him lip?”
Um…Yes, yes I could.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Shuttlesworth, what was wrong with Anthony’s reading comprehension? He correctly pointed out a mistake in the above post. Further, you make yourself look like an ass with your comments, bringing up Colorado (gee whiz, that’s some fresh material!) and demonstrating a clear lack of knowledge of what goes on a basketball court.
For the record, in a fight, Artest would murder Kobe, just like Odom would murder Scola.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Really, Odom would murder Scola? That is why Fisher took it upon himself to do the dirty work because he knows his big men (Odom included) aren’t tough…
May 8th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Pantherhare,
I was just stating how when Anthony was READING the article he failed to COMPREHEND that George was just saying that even though Kobe elbowed Artest, that Artest failed to respond in what might have been a usual manner in the past. The point of contact of where the elbow struck Artest meant little to what he was saying. Therefore, lack of reading comprehension.
Anthony just saw the words “elbow” and “neck” and got upset at the “unforgivable” mistake saying that the elbow was to the neck and not understanding that the placement of the elbow meant little to the story. Just felt like he kind of jumped on the author’s neck without getting the point. That’s all.
And furthermore, I brought up “Colorado” simply because it was funny to me and also that I know of no recent situation with Kobe, a blonde, and some sort of misconduct. Sorry if the humor went unnoticed, either by lack of mental sharpness or by choice.
And as far as demonstrating my lack of knowledge of what goes on a basketball court through my posts…I apologize…not quite sure what made you draw that conclusion but…Go rent the movie “He Got Game” and check me out. I’m the one who plays for Lincoln High, they called me “Jesus.”
May 8th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Jaime: No, it’s because Lamar was needed for the rest of the game, Fisher was not.
That’s why Oakley took all the brunt, so that Jordan could keep playing.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I am glad there are some other people who find it less enjoyable to watch basketball while people are praising themselves after every shot, or block etc…Thats why I can’t like the Lakers (even though I grew up in SoCal watching showtime) anymore. I can’t respect any of their players, besides fisher…wait, now not him either. The worst is when bench role players get all cocky and run their mouths after fluke outbursts of luck (eddie house). Just ruins the game. How much better would it be if Kobe just let his game do the talking. Thats all he needs to do, he’s that good.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
If I were Rafer I would have smacked him too. We all know he needed it…
May 8th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Gils: really that is the example you pulled. Oakley and Jordan? You realize that Oakley and Jordan only played together for the first 3 years of Jordan’s career, right? And in the second year of Jordan’s career Jodan only played 18 games…and protecting Jordan vs. Odom is two completely different things.
Also, a big backing up a guard is night and day different than the smallest guy on the floor for the Lakers backing a big. Yes, Oakley was the enforcer when he played because he was the toughest guy on the court for his team.
Fisher did not take that foul to protect get himself thrown out over Odom. I do not think Fisher thought he would be ejected. If that was the case Fisher should have told Jackson to send in Mbenga, to go foul Scola. Look I like Lamar Odom as a player and have for a long time (probably more than most people), but my knock on him is his toughness factor. If he was truly tenacious, wouldnt he be the best power forward in the game? I mean who could guard him. Instead he is a tweener going between the 3 and 4.
May 8th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
There is a reason Odom does not post up more often. He is a wuss.
His background does not mean he is tough. Players show their toughness on the courts. I’ve never seen Odom show his.
He is strong enough to get 15 rebounds a game and has enough touch around the hoop that he should post up every play. He does not. He tries too much finesse and outside moves.
He wants to be a slasher instead of his god-given role as a power forward.
May 8th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
This is some of the most tired, nitpicky, inane basketball conversation I’ve ever read.
Original post and comments included.
Shuttlesworth: You should re-read your posts. Maybe you’d see how big of a dickhead you are.
May 8th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Let’s be honest, if the roles were reversed and Artest hits Kobe in the throat with an elbow and Kobe confronts him, does he get tossed? No way. When the league reviews it would Artest get suspended? Absolutely. This is how the NBA works.
May 8th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Petey V,
Fact:
I am a huge dickhead…
May 8th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
I second the motion that Odom would give lip to Scola on the playground. I like Scola, actually, and he plays hard-nosed around the hoop – and yes, Lamar doesn’t always play as tough as needs to, but why on earth would you think Odom (who happens to be from the New York area as well as Artest, he’s just not such a crazy dude) wouldn’t say something to Scola? Do you know something about Scola’s Argentinian mob connections that we don’t?
May 10th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Hey Anthony, I didn’t need to watch the video. I was watching the game live, and saw all the replays. Obviously you never played basketball or you would know how having an elbow thrown at you pisses a player off. Elbows are a no-no. If you throw one, you better be ready to back it up. But I wasn’t criticizing Bryant. I was commending Artest and his maturity.
I don’t know anybody who knows anything about basketball that thinks Odom is more physical than Scola. That’s not dissing Odom. He’s a wonderfully gifted player, but being physical is not a big part of his game. He gets the job done with his skills. If Scola relied solely on his athleticism, he’d be in trouble; however, his competitiveness, toughness and hard work has made him a valuable player in this league.
May 10th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
What I wonder is why the celtics never get suspended?
May 11th, 2009 at 5:23 am
I think Odom would say something to Luis Scola once. Most pick-up players would assume Scola is soft because he is white and has pretty boy hair, so even a softie like Odom would think he was safe. Then Scola would hurt Lamar, and Luis wouldn’t have to worry about any more wusses getting in his face at that playground.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:07 am
George,
Good to see the readers getting fired up over one of your articles and with each other. Your rarely comment after you publish an article, so I know you must have been P.O.
Conor,
I wouldn’t call Lamar a wuss. He’s a very talented player who has never fulfilled the potential that those in the know had for him when he came out of URI. Why? I remember seeing him in a high school tournament in Las Vegas with Tracy McGrady. In comparing the two back then, Tracy had more confidence in himself and viewed himself as a leader and the most talented basketball player in the gym. He had/has a belief in himself that Lamar has never has. Lamar was very immature when he came into the league. I will never forget how hard it was to get him to visit the Bulls when we had the #1 pick in the draft. When I picked him up at the airport and took him back to our training facility, I thought he was a horse’s ass. I’ve always looked at Lamar as reluctant to step into the role that others thought was right for him. He does not have the personality of a leader. He is more content in a complementary role. He is in the perfect situation given his talents and mindset. I have never seen him as a prototypical “god given” power forward. His gift is that of a hybrid forward. Think of a stronger and more athletic Tony Kukoc who is a much better rebounder. George recently wrote an excellent piece on Rondo. Observers have a tendency to look at what a player can’t do. Better to look at what Lamar can do in assessing his game and value to the team. We’re sometimes too quick to call a player soft and a wuss. Lamar frustrates those in the know because they see what he can be, but they don’t take into account that his mental makeup will not allow him to be “The Man”. Occasionally he teases us with those special skills that he possesses and we wonder why he can’t do it every time. Luckily for him and the Lakers, they don’t have to depend on him to be the go-to guy. Lamar’s contract is coming up. I doubt the Lakers will let him walk. He is too valuable a player. Someone who is that valuable to him team cannot be considered a wuss.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Clarence,
An excellent analysis of Odom. I agree with you that Odom isn’t a wuss. He’s just not overly physical, but that does not make him a bad player. In fact, I agree with you that he would be very valuable on any team.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Mr. Gaines,
First of all, we are enthralled to have you as a regular reader of the site, thank you.
I agree entirely that Odom is a very talented player and that the Lakers should try very hard to resign him. He is very skilled and a huge asset for this team.
Perhaps wuss is the wrong term. But, I do not think that he plays to his potential or has lived up to his potential. I do think he is much less physical than Scola, as George explained (Scola is in the league because of it, Odom is in the league for his talent). Maybe it is some sort of internal weakness or something to that affect.
We are kind of approaching a few different topics here. 1) Is Odom a banger? No. 2) Is Odom a fantastic player? Yes. 3) Does Odom play to his potential? In my opinion, No. And I think that is partly due to a slight softness internally.
He obviously competes and wants to win. But does he have the drive that the greats have? No. It is much more clear as he plays alongside Kobe. Kobe’s fight completely overshadows Odom’s.